Mentoring

[Mish S]

I have found that nothing takes your skills to the next level better than playing consistently with musicians that are at or just above your skill level.

I'm interested to hear from others on this topic. I'm sure that this approach work for others but what makes it effective in both directions ?

[Mike Pullen]

I have looked in earnest and hoped to find someone around my meager playing level. Lately I began to attend a local gathering of about six people and one turned out to be a novice flatpicker. We have agreed to meet at least once a week on the side. I have tried for years to do everything from find a picker in my area to interest and influence someone new. The most enjoyable time playing for me was when I had someone to play at my level with and push each other just a little. I am excited about this new opprotunity and I am sure it is the best way for a novice to improve. Our first "session" begins today and I am looking forward to positive improvement in my playing. When you have someone around your level it feels like you are making music and not just practicing. This keeps enthusiasm at a higher level. Mike Pullen

[John Carlini]

Absolutely right on, you guys!
Private practice is a "left brain" activity the goal of which is to improve your musical skill.
Playing with other musicians is the MUSIC part and is "right brain".
One suggestion I would make is that when you are interacting with another player, LISTEN to what he or she is playing so that what you play compliments. That way you establish a musical communication. The rewards are huge!

jlc

[scott]

Wow. Yeah. I'm glad other people go through what I went through and still go through. I went through some difficult times as player in my area early on. Several jams were unwilling to allow poor ole me to jump in and hang on. You MUST keep searching for people more your level and folks that are on the higher level to entertain you for a few songs at the least. If I meet someone that's new and is trying really hard to learn I'll spend extra time with them b/c thats what I would have wanted in that situation. Also something launched my playing up a level was joining a band! Just the consistency of playing with the same guys in a closes environment was crucial to my learning. Especially since these guys were above my level of musicianship. I learned SO much and now I'm 2yrs without a band but still have that under my belt! It's okay. Now I can practice more and write songs until the next band opportunity exists!

[Mish S]

It's funny that no matter what your level there is always a next one. I try to take on (practice) complex pieces that are above my level so that I have something of value to bring to the table when the opportunity presents itself. I also found that, as John pointed out, listening is key to finding your opportunity not only compliment but to build rapport. Sometimes there is just enough of a crack to break in and sometimes not.

[John Cadley]

Hey John,
I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new, but in reading your advice about listening to other players I thought I might add the importance of listening to YOURSELF. This gets to the whole notion of getting yourself out of the way and letting the music come through you instead of from you. If there's any "secret" to great playing, that's it. Listen for the performance you want to hear--as if you were an audience member listening. Hear the notes, feel the music and the rhythm....and more often than not if you've done your homework the results will follow. Russ Barenberg says, Let your ears tell your hands what to do. It's funny but it works. It's like looking at the spot where you want to throw the ball and not at the ball itself. This, to me, takes more discipline and practice than scales, exercises, etc. because of The Voice inside your head that monitors and judges everything you do, usually very critically, which in turn affects the way you play and think of yourself as a player. Stop listening to that voice and listen to and for the music and you'll play a lot better. The reason this is so hard is because the ego wants the credit, which it can't have if the music ultimately isn't coming from you. The ego wants to say "I did that" when the way to play well is to feel like you're not playing it at all. There's the paradox.

[John Carlini]

Interesting discussion here.
John Cadley, what you are saying represents a zen-like approach to playing. Music as meditation is music at an extremely high level. You are, of course, absolutely correct in that you must listen to yourself and be aware of every note you are playing. The concept of the music flowing "through you instead of from you" sounds more like the domain of, say, John Coltrane. I have been studying the common musical ground between Coltrane and Bill Monroe for a long time. It's uncanny when you listen to one and then the other. An amazing musician (guitarist) who I studied with for 4 incredible years is Mick Goodrick. Each lesson with Mick was itself a meditation. During one session he taught me to think of each musician in a group as a different color. All the colors together produce a blended "sound painting". When your mind is clear, the colors are pure. When "ego" steps in, other elements cloud the painting.
Man! I had no idea this forum was going to get into the "spiritual" realm. But...I'm just going with the flow!
One thing I would suggest is to try to keep the comments as brief or condensed as possible, and I will do the same.
jlc

[John Cadley]

John--
I got Mick Goodrick's book a long time ago and only now am thinking I might understand some of it. Ron Block mentions it a lot. I only mention it because the biggest obstacle to my own playing has always been the guy looking at me in the mirror. That's why guitar playing is such an incredible journey. Sometimes you only grow as a guitar player by growing as a person. Now I'll shut up.
jmc

[Mike Foltz]

As a bass player I can really relate to what Mish S has mentioned. Try sitting in your living room or basement and entertaining yourself or anyone else for that matter with a bass. I am aways more productive in a group setting especially when sitting in and trying to improvise or play along to a song you have never heard. For me being in a band keeps me polished for sure.

[Marty Henrickson]

I definitely agree that I play my best when I'm not "thinking" about what I'm playing, just letting it flow. But of course, that ability comes through the discipline of the practice that's been put in (in addition to what music you have "in your head" at the time). The question to me is, how can I consistently get "in the zone". The conundrum seems to be that, by thinking about and trying to reach for this goal, it is almost made more inaccessible. I hope that made sense.

The greatest musicl goal for me is to get the music that I hear in my head to translate thru my instrument to other people.

[John Carlini]

Marty,
Your goal, "to get the music that I hear in my head to translate thru my instrument to other people", is a bullseye! How to "get to the zone" is the challenge. We need to have a system. In my case, it is a meditation that I have been practicing for a long time. It takes a few moments and it always makes things better, whether practicing or performing. But the moments of real music flow? Those are precious. When it happens, savor it and remember it. Those moments are what keeps us on the path! It was Mick Goodrick who opened my mind to all this.

John C,
At a past IBMA, Ron Block and I had a great conversation about Mick G's influence on our playing. I had always been a huge fan of Ron's musicianship and his approach to the 5-string. When he told me that he was using Mick's book I was even more amazed!

jlc

[John Cadley]

JLC,
I've been lucky enough to have a pretty good friendship with Clay Hess, who produced my last CD. Two years ago at IBMA I got to be a fly on the wall while Ron Block and Clay traded guitar breaks in a small hotel room. It was really a transcendent experience. Then Adam Steffey and Sierra Hull joined in just for good measure and my head nearly exploded. That was a real gift. To them it was probably just another day at the office..
John C

[scott]

I bought Mick's book probably 5yrs ago per John's advice, and I'll have to say it's a great tool for teaching and for motivation. It's got some really great comments in it to spark desire to improve! It's a GREAT book. This discusssion is prompting me to get back to it and open it up and learn something new. I haven't been able to get very far with it but learn something every time I open the book. Here's a link to the book.