Flatpicking Guitar Network

For Fans of Flatpicking Guitar Magazine

Theory; Beyond the Sound

Information

Theory; Beyond the Sound

This group is for discussing theory, harmony, and breaking down the walls of trying to better understand musical concepts.

Website: http://www.mikegurzi.com
Location: Online
Members: 36
Latest Activity: Oct 2, 2014

C, E-flat and G go into a bar...

The bartender says, "sorry, but we don't serve minors." So E-flat leaves, and C and G
have an open fifth between them. After a few drinks, the fifth is diminished and G is out flat. F comes in and tries to augment the situation, but is not sharp enough.

D comes in and heads for the bathroom saying, "Excuse me. I'll just be a second." Then A comes in, but the bartender is not convinced that this relative of C is not a minor. Then the bartender notices B-flat hiding at the end of the bar and says, "Get out! You're the seventh minor I've found in this bar tonight."

E-Flat comes back the next night in a three-piece suit with nicely shined shoes. The bartender says, "you're looking sharp tonight. Come on in, this could be a major
development." Sure enough, E-flat soon takes off his suit and everything else, and is a natural.

Eventually C sobers up and realizes in horror that he's under arrest. C is brought to trial, found guilty of contributing to the diminution of a minor, and is sentenced to 10 years of D.S. without Coda at an upscale correctional facility.


Discussion Forum

Help with vii chord 5 Replies

Started by Dan Forney. Last reply by Roger Ferguson Sep 30, 2014.

The Major Scale Theory 4 Replies

Started by Michael Gurzi. Last reply by Michael Gurzi May 19, 2009.

How to make a Minor Chord 2 Replies

Started by Michael Gurzi. Last reply by Michael Gurzi Apr 17, 2009.

Comment Wall

Comment by Dave Warner on November 27, 2008 at 6:13am
How about a discussion of some common chord substitutions? I had a class with Jeff Jenkins that covered some of this to a degree. One thing he covered that I didn't catch was the idea of a "tri-tone" substitution. I understand (I think) what a tri-tone chord is, but I don't know how that helps you figure out what chord to sub when.
Comment by Dave Warner on November 27, 2008 at 8:00am
Thanks, Michael. So the dominant seventh chord of which the root note is the tritone, is generally only used as a sub for the V chord? Hm, there must be a better way to say that.

A V-I movement is generally when the tritone sub is used? You wouldn't use a tritone sub for the IV, or the ii, etc...?
Comment by Michael Gurzi on November 27, 2008 at 4:09pm
I think the concept is that you can use the tritone as a movement to a target chord. If you had a situation where enroute to the ii chord, say Dm7 and it was preceded by an A7 (which would be functioning as a 5 of 2 in C) then if you wanted you could use a Eb7 as the tritone sub for A7. It really depends on the sound you want, and how it fits, but you could. Therefore it is not limited to just the V-I movement, but to any chord where a V of something is being played.

In that situation we call any V chord that is not the actual keys V (like G7 in the key of C) then it is called a secondary dominant. So in the above, the A7 to Dm7 in the key of C is a secondary dominant. If you used Eb7, it would be a tritone sub to the secondary dominant.

Crazy stuff

Mike
Comment by Michael Gurzi on November 29, 2008 at 10:00am
Great points Tim. One thing for all to note, is that if you learn all of your min7 chords and their inversions, you are also learning the relative Maj6 chords and their inversions. There are 4 inversions of each on each 3 string sets: String set 4,3,2,1; 5,4,3,2; 6,5,4,3 - thats 12 chord forms, but since they can function as or sub for each other, thats 24 chords!!

Also, on your Am7 sub for the D7, yes it sounds like a D9, but the bigger idea is that you can always put a minor ii chord in front of a V. This gives you much more harmonic interest. You can always use that walk down too. great stuff. Thanks Tim!!
Comment by Mike Bunting on January 22, 2009 at 12:48pm
Good stuff, I love messing with those tritone subs.
Comment by Tim Pulley on January 23, 2009 at 7:11am
Hello all,
I can tell that I will enjoy this group.
Michael, I read your post of Jan 12, boy you hit the nail on the head with that one. I am guilty as charged, I have been working on approaching songs from different angles, but I think that sometimes at jams, either my body or more likely my mind will get lazy, I guess the path of least resistence. I work on the songs up and down the neck, across and in combinations, but get me to a jam it feels like stay with what you know. Thanks for the post, it will serve as a reminder to me to use different positions.
Also, since this is Theory, I would like to learn more about the different modes. I am not much of a theorist, but would love to learn more and more.
Comment by Chad Fette on January 24, 2009 at 5:15am
Mike,
I love this discussion group. I have a question that I think will be easy to answer. How do I figure out the chords in a minor key? For instance, how do I convert D major to D minor?
Thanks,
Chad
Comment by Chad Fette on January 26, 2009 at 7:29pm
Mike,
Okay, I can kind of see a bit of what you are saying. I understand about scales, but if something is in say, the key of Dm, what chords would it require in a basic progression?
Thanks,
Chad
Comment by Michael Gurzi on January 26, 2009 at 9:08pm
Chad,

If you review my post from Jan 24, I wrote out the 3 minor scales and the chord progressions from each. Pull the chords from those examples to create a progression. Most of the time the V chord is converted to Dom7 but the I and IV remain minor. Therefore a basic minor progression in Dm would be; Dm - Gm - A7.

The III, VI & VII are flat in a natural minor scale, so those would be F, Bb & C. So try any of those chords too.

Maybe something like: || Dm | C | Bb | Gm - A7 | Dm |

Look up some minor tunes like, Gypsy Swing, House of the Risin Sun, House Carpenter. Or the minor blues where in its basic form, all the chords are minor. In Dm that would be:

||Dm | Gm | Dm | Dm |
|Gm | Gm | Dm | Dm |
|Am | Gm | Dm | Dm ||

Hope this helps,

Mike
Comment by Tim Pulley on January 27, 2009 at 6:48am
Now I remember why I didn't apply to Berkeley!

What an explanation on modes Michael, thanks. I really enjoyed that, but will have to read it several more times to get it to sink in. I am sure I will have questions, or maybe I'll just hold them until after the next installment. I liked the statement of Joe Pass, however I am trying to, like you said, understand. I think that understanding will lead to better pickin' and that's why I'm here.
Thanks again Michael for the time and effort.

Comment

You need to be a member of Theory; Beyond the Sound to add comments!

 

Members (35)

 
 
 

Don't Miss These!

Badge

Loading…

Latest Activity

Guglielmo Palombella and Dave Siler are now friends
Dec 1
Dave Siler commented on David Burns's video
Thumbnail

McVerry's Men (from Crossmaglen) / St. Anne's Reel / Drowsy Maggie

"Lads, that's absolutely brilliant! Well played, and UP THE REPUBLIC!"
Nov 18
Louis Ruoti posted a video

Wildwood Flower - Louis Ruoti - Flatpick Solo

A Carter Family song, bless their souls! Instrument is a Blueridge BR 140, recorded with a Zoom H6 Handy Recorder and Logitech web cam.
Nov 10
Louis Ruoti posted a video

Santa Rosa Wildfire - Original Song - Louis Ruoti - Flatpick Guitar Solo

Another freewheeling "make it up as you go along" song. Instrument is a Blueridge BR 140, recorded on a Zoom H6 Handy Recorder.
Nov 9
billy jones bluez updated their profile
Oct 29
Dave Siler commented on Downtown Freddy Brown's group Taylor Guitar Owners and Lovers
"Just added the Taylor K22e to my collection. Physically, it is the most beautiful guitar that I have ever seen. The lovely KOA and maple combinations are literally breathtaking. The KOA and boxwood ocean vine inlay on the fret board is striking, as…"
Oct 29
Dave Siler joined Downtown Freddy Brown's group
Thumbnail

Taylor Guitar Owners and Lovers

People who own, wish to own or just plain love Taylor guitarsSee More
Oct 29
Louis Ruoti commented on Louis Ruoti's video
Thumbnail

Jessie and Ginny Original Flatpick Solo Louis Ruoti

"Where does the time go? I've come to accept the physical limitations which come with age, but mine are of a degree which interfere with my ability to play for more than a couple of hours per day. It's disheartening, but I simply do the…"
Oct 26
Dave Siler commented on Louis Ruoti's video
Thumbnail

Jessie and Ginny Original Flatpick Solo Louis Ruoti

"I hear you, buddy.  I will hit the big 70 in January! YikesI But nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, will keep me from several hours a day on my guitar, banjo, and fiddle. I figure, now that I am retired, every day is Saturday! You are one…"
Oct 25
Louis Ruoti commented on Louis Ruoti's video
Thumbnail

Jessie and Ginny Original Flatpick Solo Louis Ruoti

"Thanks, Dave. Your kind praise spurs me on in the battle between my old bones and the instrument! "
Oct 25
Dave Siler commented on Louis Ruoti's video
Thumbnail

Jessie and Ginny Original Flatpick Solo Louis Ruoti

"As always, Louis, a TOP NOTCH rendition!"
Oct 25
Dave Siler commented on Joe Flatpicker's video
Thumbnail

O'Carolan's Draught

"Joe, the old blind harpist is proud of you. Very nice rendition!"
Oct 25
Tony Wetjen updated their profile
Oct 25
Jed C left a comment for Jonathan Trawick
"I'm sorry sir but the Chief Stewardess has said you've had enough....."
Feb 3, 2009
Steve Broitman is attending Kevin Justice's event
Thumbnail

Wilmington Winter Bluegrass Festival

March 13, 2009 at 6pm to March 15, 2009 at 6pm
The Wilmington Winter Bluegrass Festival is presented March 13-15, 2009 at the Holiday Inn Select in Claymont, DE. by Wilmington Wintergrass, Inc., as we proudly present our 2nd annual all-indoor festival.Featuring 2 stages, workshops, jamsSee More
Feb 3, 2009
Tim Pulley and Ray Fairbanks are now friends
Feb 3, 2009

© 2017   Created by Dan Miller.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service